This post is likely to raise some hackles. I debated within my mind whether to put it up. I finally decided that I needed help in thinking this through, and so I appeal to you.
I’d like to discuss with my readers the role of cursing/foul language/swear words in fantasy fiction. I really don’t want to address it generally, as others more qualified than I have done so, and I believe that for other genres, this area is murkier. I know that this is really a matter of personal tolerance for the words or personal preference, but what I would like to do is state my thoughts, explain why I feel this way, and garner your comments on the subject. I’ll admit at the beginning that I am conflicted about this. I have certain Christian beliefs, and a lot of this stems from my inner conflict over enjoying fantasy books that use swearing, but that are otherwise well-written, such as the recently released books by Joe Abercrombie, The Blade Itself (my review), or The Innocent Mage by Karen Miller.
Let me first say that I know that different people have different tolerances, and that the author has the right, nay the duty, to write as he wants and for his target audience. However, there will always be that person in the audience (i.e., me) uncomfortable with certain words or phrases. For purposes of this post, I will use the first letter or letter and asterisks to denote certain words. (I don’t want the crawlers to pick it up.)
I love fantasy fiction. I have loved it since I was very young and I picked up that first Arthurian fantasy. From there I progressed to epic fantasy, into science fiction, dabbled in some urban fantasy, and have settled on epic and sword and sorcery as my favorite types. Most of the time, these books contain little to no foul language of any kind, not even fanciful, made-up words.
Foul language/swear words and curses are different to my mind. Curses are usually the taking of a god’s name in vain. Curses I see as creative parts of world-building, and are usually in the case of made-up deities. (Forgotten Realms readers will be familiar with curses about Tymora or Mystra.) Neil Gaiman even used this to clever effect in American Gods by having the gods curse on themselves. So, to me, it is acceptable to use a fake deity’s name in vain. This makes sense for an author to do, since some young readers will read these books, and parents will ignore deity curses (other than those of real religions) where they would not ignore d*n or f*k. My belief is that taking a false god’s name in vain allows the author the freedom to come up with creative curses without causing offense. The only line crossing I see between this and swearing is when words like “teats” or other body parts are used.
Swearing, using words like d*n and f*k or b*ch, and c*nt, are offensive to me as a reader. I’ve never made any secret of the fact that I am a Christian, and so my worldview on right and wrong stems from that. But I also like to think of myself as a postmodernist, willing to accept that my values are not necessarily the values of others. I say this only show that while I am a Christian, and there are certain elements within Christianity that read the Ten Commandments and the Bible to include curses and swearing as sins, I view this differently. I understand that the actual words used change from culture to culture and that it is the intent that should be judged not the particular words. Simply put, I believe that cursing and swearing are wrong in their purpose, although I have no problem with the actual words.
However, I have grown up in a Judeo-Christian, Western culture, as most native English speakers have. So within our culture, we have specific words designed to evoke swearing, such as those listed above. I dislike these not for the words themselves, but their intent and the fact that they are in fact our culture’s foul language/swear words. If I were in a different time and place, different words might be offensive to me, but I live now, so I am addressing those words which are used for swearing now.
All right, now let’s move back into why I don’t like swear words/foul language in fantasy fiction in particular.
My primary reason is simple. Because of my background and beliefs, I am often jarred out of enjoyment of a book by particular swear words. While I can gloss over d*n and even b*ch, (I have been known to use those words in anger myself before, something I regret) I am always jarred out of my reading by the word f*k or c*t or some of the less common swear words. Other people might be jarred out of their reading by the words I gloss over. This, I think, is a result of rearing and personality. By jarring I mean that I will be in the flow of the story, and then be thrust back into the real world by the use of a very real and very modern swear word. Fantasy fiction, to me, especially epic or sword and sorcery style fantasy, is about creating another world, one that, while relevant to the culture in which it is published, is also otherworldly and something apart. Good may not always triumph, but the writer is able to tell his story without thrusting me back into the real world. I like to escape, and words that are quintessentially modern prevent that. This true even of non-swear words, but usually only when they come out in the conversation of characters.
My secondary reason is also simple. Young children do read books intended for adults, not matter what categorization or separation we provide to delineate them. Classifications of adult or young adult or children are useful for categorizing, but provide no protection for young minds. I began reading adult fiction at a very young age. (Probably third grade or so.) I had exhausted the children’s fiction, and much of it was babyish and little of it was fantasy. Therefore, I began reading books with very adult themes that I could easily check out at the library. I remember reading The King of YS by Poul Anderson, a story wherein a man has many wives, and his own daughter tries to sleep with him. (Which is, I know, the exact same story as the one about Lot and his daughters from the Bible. I know the Bible is rife with these kinds of stories. However, I did not encounter them in my Children’s Bible, and only tackled them in my teens, after I had already encountered sexuality and swearing elsewhere.) I was probably about 10 years old. The sex scenes were descriptive and used the words we are talking about here. So in essence, I fear some other child doing as I did, and encountering words (and images) that should not be in their vocabulary, were not taught by their parents, and are rare in polite society.
Thirdly, I feel that it is just lazy of the author. If you can’t say it another way, you aren’t really trying very hard. Sometimes it is appropriate, especially in urban fantasy or some of the other subgenres. I can even accept it more so in science fiction since those worlds are built on our own, and we swear with certain words. But it lacks creativity in my opinion.
There is another caveat. What if you are writing a book where the characters need to swear as part of their culture? Well, I think that’s okay, and the urban fantasy subgenre is likely to do so. Urban fantasy combines the elements of contemporary fiction and standard Tolkienesque fantasy together. As a result, some characters are likely to swear, if the come from our modern era. That just makes sense. Overuse of swear words is unnecessary and the author will have to determine to what extent he can or should, but I can see why it is used.
Do I think a fantasy story should have no swearing in it? Yes, except in certain subgenres. Do I think it ruins the story completely? No, I can still enjoy it, but I don’t like the occasional jarring that occurs. Does my Christianity affect this? Yes, I’d be a liar if I didn’t say so. Am I something of a prude? Well, yes, most people would think so. But I still would like to think that my reasons are reasonable and something others not of my faith might agree with.
In all honesty though, I’m conflicted. It’s such a grey area, especially where an art like writing is concerned. Please do not think that I am saying a book is bad because of the use of swearing and/or foul language. There are many other factors that come into play in assessing a book, and this is just one of them, but to me it is one worth study.
Do any of ya’ll have an opinion?
I like inventive swearing, like “by Thordin’s balls!” or something similar. D–n and B—ch are not so bad, as they can translate into most cultures. F–k and C–t just piss me off, and I think an author has taken the easy way out. I mostly read fantasy fiction and I think their are more entertaining ways to swear. “Pizzle” is an awesome work and sounds better than D–k. (I may have spelled it wrong, but you get what I am saying.) One word is amusing and one word is jarring.
The C word can depend on location and usage, as in the British version of early slang, so it depends on the novel.
Interesting discussion, as I had not really thought too much about it.
I heard a wonderful interview with Dead Wood writer/creator David Milch on NPR recently. He was asked why all the excessive swearing in Deadwood (which, if you haven’t seen it, has its own very complex language that is almost Shakespearing in it’s ornateness but is also full of cursing). His response was to cite a scholarly work, the title escapes me, on the language of the old west. The history was that frontier’s men tended to swear often because of the immediacy and urgency of a lot of their lives, but, and this is interesting, if they were literate, the only books they were likely to have seen were the plays of Shakespeare and the Bible, hence the combination of ornate, baroque language and foul language was actually, uh, dead on in Deadwood.
Swearing is something that you are not likely to miss the lack of, unless as you say, it is a modern day sort of thing. I think authors use swear words whwen they want to write gritty works. Many times, artificial swear words such as a god’s name just sounds odd. In the movie A Knight’s Tale, one of the characters used “fong” (actually overused) to a comic effect.
I’ve never read a book that had swearing and then thought to myself afterward, “this book really ought to have had some swearing in it.”
Lou – I would love that article if you can find it.
My one point would be that since Deadwood is based on old Westerns, I think it classifies as urban or historical fantasy. Those would be two subgenres of fantasy in which I think that swearing (to a certain extent) would be okay because it is realistic.
The wife and I were discussing this last night and we both agreed that if a context calls for it, we are okay with swearing, such as in realistic fiction or old Westerns, etc.
But I think in fantasy (with some exceptions) it is less necessary because by its very nature it does not require realism.
Of course, when looking for grittiness, swearing is a useful tool. I’ve know authors who use swearing in theri books because the character called for it and it made sense.
But mostly it is wholly unnecessary. And the choice of words could be more careful. As Stormy is saying, some words are more offensive than others. So an author should be careful in their choices.
Hi John:
The Milch wasn’t an article, but a radio interviewed aired on NPR. You might be able to find it streaming or podcast by going to NPR.org and searching Milch though. I found it fascinating. Particularly his assessment of television and his attempts to write up, not down, to his audience.
You know, on the use of your word “realism”: I’d say that, even in fantasy, stories need to be internally consistent and work by their own logic. I think that Joe achieves a level of realism in his work – and this is his stated intent – by portraying his fantasy “heroes” as real people who are flawed, selfish, short sighted, stubborn, etc… as opposed to cardboard heroes.
Lou – I think you are right about Joe Abercrombie. However, realism does not have to mean swearing. But again, I understand this is up to authors to determine what “realism” is for them and their audience. Abercrombie certainly made his characters real to me (I love the book!) but I think the swearing was not needed. I think he would have been fine doing it to a certain extent, but not with as much prevalence as he did.
I want to reiterate that my opinion is just that and that the inclusion or lack thereof does not make a book better or worse as a piece of literature, only I wanted to show the effect swearing has on me as a reader.
I have read some really awful books with no swearing and the lack of it didn’t help matters.
In fact, my wife mentioned a western she recently read that lacked it, and therefore seemed unreal to the point where she lost interest. But that is a western.
In fantasy, I like to think that an author, because he is NOT constrained by reality, can be more creative and need to rely less on swearing and more on writing ability to get across the flawed, selfish, stubborn nature of his characters.
John,
I didn’t mean to conflate swearing with realism – that was a separate point in my mind. I do take your point re: swearing, and I also admire the way you admit that what works for one person might not another. It does occur to me to mention by way of example that there is only a single use of swearing in the entire original series Trek, Kirk’s “Let’s get the hell out of here” after the death of Edith Keeler, which is all the more powerful for its sparing use/singularity.
Lou – I agree. Judicious use of swearing can have excellent effect if done well. Overuse can destroy a book/movie/show for some people. It is a delicate balancing act.
Then there is the fact that some words are considered more heinous than others in our culture. f-ck and c–nt are more offensive than d–mn or h-ll. I told my wife I cam across c–nt recently and she was surprised that a book would use a word so obviously offensive to women in particular.
It comes down to balance I guess. And what is good for the goose ain’t always good for the gander.
As I reader I have moderate tolerance and can even take the more offensive words in small doses (which is why I am ok with Abercrombie’s book) but at the beginning of reading I was afraid this would be another instance of overuse. It isn’t fortunately, and the story is so good it doesn’t matter overmuch.
I neglected to mention earlier the use of Chinese curses in Firefly/Serenity. Which I thought was ingenious. I don’t know whether it would offend Chinese speakers – my wife, who is from mainland China – couldn’t understand Nathan Fillion’s accent enough to know. But it underscores a point about context. The aforementioned C word is pretty offensive here, but rather innocuous in Britain. Whereas the stereotypical British “bloody” that American’s always toss around when trying to emulate British speak, is actually a lot more serious over there than we realize.
That is interesting about Firefly. I didn’t know that and never really noticed it. As I said, culture has a lot to do with what is considered swearing, so our backgrounds and rearing and knowledge and even country (as Lou said) have a lot to do with what is considered offensive.
Publishers will need to take that into consideration when publishing in other nations. Brits and USA are close enough, but try some of the stuff we let slide in China or Japan and it could mean trouble.
So what is a reader to do? My own problem is the jarring I get and the fear for children who pick up seemingly harmless books. I think the second reason is why I would call on publishers to be as careful as possible. Censorship isn’t always bad, and anyone who says different thinks that an original manuscript of an author is the exact same thing that is printed and sold, and it just ain’t so.
But don’t be overly sensitive. That is why the Christian book market is so blah. The characters aren’t real because they don’t behave in a real fashion. Good writing will always trump cleanliness except in the most extreme of circumstances.
Parents also have a responsibility to be careful, especially if their children are big readers. Fortunately a lot has changed since my childhood and there are plenty of good YA fantasy books out there.
So perhaps I just need to get over it? I won’t hand my child GRRM or Abercrombie or Miller or Goodkind etc. but that doesn’t mean I, as a thinking adult can’t enjoy these books.
Hey John,
Cheers for the review, and I’m glad you liked the book, in spite of the swearing. An interesting discussion, and it’s a tonic to see folks on the internet talking about this type of thing without frothing at the mouth one way or the other. You’re completely right when you say that, ultimately, it’s a question of personal preferences.
I particularly like the line – “I have read some really awful books with no swearing and the lack of it didn’t help matters.”
Hope you don’t mind a link, I’ve put some of my own thoughts down here:
http://www.joeabercrombie.com/2007/09/zounds-swearing-in-fantasy.html
Not so much a response to what you’ve been saying in particular, as to some of the more general opinions I’ve seen expressed around and about, but it touches on some of the same points, still.
John,
I wrote up a bit of a response over at my own blog. Swearing in Fantasy is always something I’ve had a pretty strong opinion about, so it’s nice to see someone else taking up the discussion.
I don’t particularly agree with you, but you might be interested to see why HERE.
~Aidan
A Dribble of Ink
I posted this response to Joe over at his blog.
Thanks for your thoughts Joe. I agree that the writer has to decide for himself what is too much and what is just the right amount.
I know from my few visits to London that swearing is much more acceptable and common in England than it is in the United States. So for readers in Britain, this might be less of an issue. Those of us stateside are a wee bit more sensitive.
I also like that you point out that this is how you speak, and therefore how you write. That makes good plain sense.
Your books are not an example of overuse of swearing. I felt that some characters swore who didn’t have too and that perhaps some did unnecessarily, but didn’t feel you pushed the limit.
Overuse would be something like using the swear words two or three times in the same sentence. So much so that the meaning of the sentence was lost in the story.
Fantasy doesn’t have to have Victorian language to be good, nor does it have to by wholly clean.
I would say, (no slight to you mother) that the honesty argument can be used by people who simply want an excuse to be crass. But if a good author like you uses it, than anyone can, so an author should be careful about using that as a starting point for his reasons for using swearing.
Good points though, I was writing from the reader’ side and realized later that perhaps I forgot to take in the author’s side as well. You did that excellently. Thanks.
You nailed my argument well Aidan. I think that there just needs to be balance. Authors should write the character and use language that is appropriate to situation. They should also think about audience and take that into account as well. I would not hand GRRM to my children, but I might hand it to a friend. I might hand Abercrombie to a college student, but would shy away from giving it to a middle schooler. Audience has effect, even if the author simply is trying to write to be honest.
A lot of this stems from my beliefs and my judeo-Christian heritage, as I mentioned in my article. So what is not okay for me will be okay for someone who was raised or believes differently. That makes sense. I still think that no matter what one believes, there can be overuse of swearing to the point that no one enjoys the novel. Or only a limited audience anyway. Abercrombie does not fall into that trap, for which I am grateful (since his book is so good!)
I love GRRM’s books. I find them disturbing, provocative, and extremely well-written. Would I take a care who I recommend them too? Yes. Will I stop readin them just becasue of swearing? No, because that is not all a story is. It is one element only.
Said Joe on Aidan’s blog: I don
Uh, his editor wouldn’t mind that.
His editor once embarrassed his highschool English teacher by his choice of Shakespeare to read aloud before the class, btw.
I like Tim Lebbon’s point that none of this is actually “English.” Words like sword, halberd, cuirass would need fantasy equivalents too…
Lou – Just as an FYI, you were comment number 555 on this site. Thanks for bringing me to such an arbitrary number (its high though, which is cool).
Joe mentioned he’d like being called the Chaucer of our genre at Aidan’s site. Nice to see we agree.
I have heard it said that in the context of a story about people living in modern times, having the presence of swearing makes the characters who would have been the type to do so were they real people more believable.
However, if a realistic story was about characters whose real-life counterparts may be inclined to swear, and the addition of swearing into the character’s fictional dialogue makes the story more realistic, then it _must_ be true that choosing to not write in the swear words where it was thought applicable would result in a less believable story. However, this latter assertion is simply false. It is entirely possible to write a believable story, even about for example high school gangs, without the use of any profanity whatsoever. Rarely does one feel, for example, upon reading a good book that they might have found the story more believable if certain characters were swearing more often. Thus, the premise that swearing somehow makes a story more believable is provably false.
In the end, I would conclude that the use of profanity to allegedly add any so-called “realism” to a fictional story ultimately amounts to little more than laziness on the part of the author. I would consider it to be the “fast food” of fiction, in that it’s quick and easy and there’s very little work involved in doing it, but like fast food lacks nutrition, resorting to profanity usage in fiction also shows lack of any real depth of thought into the development of the story.
I totally agree with your article. I am a full-time student, but I’m older than the typical student –31, almost 32. Currently, I am taking a Fiction Writing I class, and several of my classmates have habitually turned in short stories that are well, riddled with foul language. I stumbled upon your article, read it, and agreed with it. I am sick of encountering foul language in what should be enjoyable reading, and I’m trying to find a “nice” way to tell my classmates this when it comes my turn to speak regarding their story (our class is like a workshop). I am also a Christian and find certain words offensive. Got any advice for me as to how to approach this? I certainly don’t want to appear as a prude.
Your best bet is too be honest, state your point of view and also
explain that while you don’t enjoy swearing in fiction, you also see
the point. Although I dislike it, I also know it has its uses. You
could point to how the rare swear word can actually be more effective
than constant swearing. Also point to the fact that swearing is only
useful in places where it makes sense, (Epic fantasies don’t need it,
or can use made-up words).
Just say why you disagree, make sure it connects to the other person’s
writing in a specific way, and explain when you feel it is
appropriate, then you might not be derided as a prude.
I spent a lot of time discussing this at the Westeros Forum, where
many folks had responded to me. This might help your research.
Westeros discussion on swearing in fantasy.
John, I’m seeing this article for the first time because of your list of interesting facts about your site. You wrote it before I started Flash Fiction Online, but I tend to agree with a lot of what you say. And I disagree with Aidan and Joe, even though I’ve sworn a lot in my day. There’s no need to swear by the golden boots of David Beckham, but there’s also no need to use ordinary vulgar English.
This isn’t a question of fantasy vs. non-fantasy genres, either. I use TV as my model, which often deals with tough themes without being explicit in image or language. I have yet to watch a Law and Order episode and say, “That character wasn’t realistic enough. He should have sworn more.” I have yet to receive a submission in which the swearing particularly helps it. There are probably cases in which something explicit in language or description is important, but it’s rare, and isn’t really what you’re talking about here.
This is from our submission guidelines:
I came across this post while trying to decide on swearing in the fantasy novel I’m writing.
I hate words like f-ck, etc, I just don’t like hearing them in general, and in fantasy, they are way to common and modern to be in (unless it’s urban fantasy).
However, d–n and b—ard seem to fit in high fantasy, at least to my ear. I don’t know why.
Anyway, I think the best way to use them is very sparingly. If a character hasn’t sworn for 400 pages, and then in one very angry scene they say something as simple as d–n, you know they mean business.
Good post, btw.
I often find issue with the swearing because, not just it doesn’t fit Middle Earth, but it becomes so over the top. Do real people swear as much as these characters? Even given the circumstances, I often find that it seems unrealistic and exaggerated, which I suspect is the writer’s thrill at using words he or she can’t use in polite society more than actually necessity of story. I share your Christian values and while I do agree the words themselves are not necessarily bad, they are used to belittle or insult or offend and thus are wrong in their intent. I also agree it’s lazy writing often. Readers are smart. You can write “Xalivar swore” and people will fill in their favorite curse word. For a kid, it might be “DARN” for an adult “F***” but readers actually get more involved when their mind is creatively stimulated. I’ve seen studies on it in fact. And also, kids do get a hold of these books. Yes, you as an author are entitled to your beliefs but you have no right to impose them on someone else’s kid and frankly, you have a responsibility for everything you put out there. And so I think word choices should be used with care.